However, the film studio was initially very strongly against this plot twist, as they thought it was far too dark for mainstream audiences to enjoy. By the film's end, the events ofSe7en haveinspiredan obvious change in Detective Mills, but the final line of the film actually evidences a significant change in Somerset, too. But in real life, John Hinckley Jr. shot (but didn't kill) President Ronald Reagan and said that he did it because of his obsession with Jodie Foster. Single gsw. Or, perhaps, merely fronting for a drug organisation isnt exactly the most demanding of occupations. The film actually rewards repeated viewings, which is nice, but I couldnt stop a particular question from popping into my mind as I watched the film again. Dont get me wrong, I like it when directors take trashy genres and class them up, but I guess I prefer it when something more interesting is done with story and character. Se7en's "what's in the box?" Here's Se7en's ending explained in detail. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. His audition was simple for the role of Theodore Victor Allen, a pedophile anddrug dealer kept alive and torturedfor a year by serial killer John Doe (Kevin Spacey). Throughout the film, there are gruesome scenes involving pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth. The "Envy" victim is the story's criminal, John Doe (Kevin Spacey). 10 must-see new movies to see while stuck at home, from 'Mulan' to 'Rebecca', All the best movies we saw at New York Film Festival, Your California Privacy Rights/Privacy Policy. Spaceys monologue sells the whole film and almost reads like a letter of intent to the viewer as to why the movie is being presented in a dark, disturbing fashion. | Edit. Did Brendan cripple Marcos Santos on purpose? Learn how your comment data is processed. "And David Fincher told me, 'You look horrific, it's great.' 2. She was provided with a telephone to call an ambulance, hence living life disfigured and scarred, and sleeping pills to commit suicide and escape the life of disfigurement. Gluttony is over-indulgence and over-consumption of anything to the point of waste. I'm Brad."). Se7en film location: the police . User Ratings Styling contours by colour and by line thickness in QGIS. I think Doe chose Victor, a pederast and drug dealer as a victim because honest work is hard to do and requirse a lot of effort. Warner Home Video. Perhaps, as the prostitute might be argued to encourage lust, you could argue that a drug dealer encourages and enables sloth he allows and fuels a lifestyle built around that particular deadly sin. And that Took a fair amount of time to come up with that. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. To me, the motivations of John Doe never made sense. We don't know very much with him, besides he was forced on drugs and rotted away in bed for a year or something. It's police lingo for the word "detective", a shortened version of it. I think its a mark of quality that a movie makes you delve into details like that. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. That barbed strapon is nightmare fuel. Does the movie give any clues as to Mills fate? RELATED:10 Best Thrillers On Netflix (That Isn't Bird Box). The budget adds up quickly. It works on a superficial level, but the more I think about it, the less it makes sense, and the more I want to discover a way for it to make sense. Niall Gray is a features writer for Screen Rant covering just about every film- or TV-related topic he's loosed upon. Related:SpongeBob SquarePants' Super Dark Se7en Easter Egg Explained. I made a screen shot here. So was he wearing a strapon with a knife at the end and fucked the prostitute to death? The animals live solitary lives and travel from tree to tree . It has none of the stylistic polished way of his later films. Why? I couldnt think of any occupation that embodied sloth. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Ending of "Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans". Some of the colorful headlines that grace the page include "Housekeeper Held Hostage By Child's Possessed Gerbil Three Days of Terror" as well as "Neighbors Beagle scares teen cures 8-year bout with hiccups." No crime scene in "Seven" was more gruesome than the one that awaited Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman as they burst through a wooddoor to find "Sloth.". Written by David Fincher, Se7en is a simple but bleak crime thriller, centering on two detectives - a rookie and a veteran - who work together to hunt a serial killer. Sloth does not refer to laziness, but to indifference, of an unwillingness to act, an unwillingness to care. Now, near the end we come to know that John Doe himself is the representation of Envy. The box contents delivered to Mills inSe7en's final scene aren't ever shown. John Doe's plan sees Somerset continue in his role as a detective, effectively trapping him in purgatory and making him the film's final victim. Thanks for the good read. I honestly never really understood that scene. Never thought of it like that. Doe meets up with Mills at the scene of the Sloth murder, and personally experiences Mills' violent temper which would make him the ideal candidate; later, Doe has the opportunity to kill Mills in the alley, but doesn't, probably to preserve him for becoming the seventh victim. When youre smuggling drugs and abusing children (like the guy in the movie was), youre showing spiritual apathy. User Reviews John Doe kills her, fulfilling the sin of envy because he envied Det. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. And with each victim discovered, we are allowed only the aftermath. The manipulator had placed an IV in Victor's arm to provide him with just enough . However, the movie was subsequently novelized by Anthony Bruno and published in 1995. 2023 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Satellite Information Network, LLC. Well just like in the real world in which the prop was made, the killer could had said it was for a movie. What is the correct way to screw wall and ceiling drywalls? Sloth is one of the seven capital sins in Catholic teachings. "And Iwas like, 'How did youknow it was me? I didnt proofread it before I sent it. Just based on the appearance and overall vibe of the movie, most of the audience members have typically assumed that the film is set in New York City. The goal of /r/Movies is to provide an inclusive place for discussions and news about films with major releases. What strange movie questions bother you? MacKay saw "Seven" with a friend and "both of us jumped up when I moved onscreen, as did everyone else in the theater. Mills' "simple" life. Related:Every Unmade David Fincher Movie (& Why They Didn't Happen). Even the landlord doesnt seem especially bothered that he never sees his client, only happy paid on-time and not asking any questions. @HorusKol The argument of the statement is, we've had 25 years to pick it apart and analyse and/or compare to movies that have done something similar, ripped off and or both and did it better. Seeing the poor guy sit in the interrogation room with the sheet around his shoulders and the knife dildo still on him, you realize how big it is and how much terrible damage something like that would do. Edit, They are the most deadly vices, according to Pope Gregory the Great in the 6th century. MacKay insists that an unsuspecting McGinley'sreal shock at hisfirst move was capturedinthe first take: "I did scare the (stuff) out of him. Sloth means spiritual laziness. In the Philokalia, the word dejection is used instead of sloth, for the person who falls into dejection will lose interest in life. (LogOut/ Even this kind of characterization wouldnt be a problem if the story and plot was inherently interesting. Did the guy think it was for a movie or something? Heres what I mean: He was tied to his bed for an entire year, kept at the brink of survival only through the judicious usage of intravenous drugs and medications, the experience of which causes him untold physical anguish and renders him completely insane. Detective Mills is "Wrath"; when John Doe reveals what he has done to Tracy, Mills becomes enraged and shoots John Doe, making him the fatality of the sin Wrath. Thanks Casper. I think pride was the choice made after the disfigurement: After all, even the survivor from the first film is [spoiler] irrevocably changed by her experiences. Edit, John Doe leads Mills and Somerset out into the middle of nowhere, assuring them that they will be impressed by what they find. I was thinking the same thing how did she swallow all those pills with no water? He's taken to a local hospital with a chewed up tongue, vegetated brain, disintegrated and rotted skeletal body but we don't hear about him finally dying in the movie. "It was so visually arrestingthat itjust looked fake," McGinley recalls. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. MacKay moved on to play the odd, monocle-wearing "Monopoly Guy" who gets thrown about by Jim Carrey in "Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls," and the small version of Bane in 1997's "Batman & Robin" before the poison serum makes the villain super-sized, thusplayed by pro-wrestler Robert "Jeep" Swenson. However, I can understand the logic of most of them, barring Sloth. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? The X-Cast Season 9, Episode 2 (Nothing Important Happened TodayII), New Escapist Column! The next sin is lust - Doe forces a man at gunpoint to rape an unnamed sex worker using a bladed implement. By manipulating Detective Mills into killing him and bringing his plan to fruition, John Doe wins. I think part of the genius of Se7en is the fact that John Doe doesn't necessarily have "rules" per se. Why does the age of the film mean it will have plot holes? Not only did he succeed in manipulating Mills, but he also shocked Somerset out of his own apathy, forcing the older detective to reevaluate his choice to retire. But good luck convincing him of that. That said, abusing children seems like more than spiritual apathy its a much more direct and active type of crime, and it feels like it would have been more firmly rooted in lust. These are the only two victims with a clear connection to each other, as the other 3 victims do not appear to be connected. Sure, its an entertaining and interesting serial killer movie but I dont see how its a masterpiece. Choosing being a criminal and to rape children is easy to do, because he chooses not to work hard and prefers to make money in the easy way, meaning forms of both physical and mental sloth. But to enrage him, he needed to hurt him really bad. Directors have been using their abilities to shock and scare their actors in real life in order to get a more convincing performance out of them pretty much since the beginning of horror films. I asked myself If I was writing the book, what occupation or personal day choose to represent sloth? A professional gambler was the best I can come up with. Read our extensive list of rules for more information on other types of posts like fan-art and self-promotion, or message the moderators if you have any questions. call ambulance, live, but wind up disfigured; I was wondering the same thing. Thoughthe film's ending leaves its narrative open, there's no need for a sequel toSe7en. The-Se7en Wiki is a FANDOM Movies Community. Se7en has really grown on me over the years. Still alive to win titles are Berks Catholic's . Here are 10. It can also be either an outright refusal or merely a carelessness in the performance of one's obligations, especially spiritual, moral or . The sloth scene was also pretty goddamn haunting . Except envy, John Doe himself. Are we supposed to know what happened to his left hand, and what exactly are those tubes in his right arm? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I was a corpse for God's sake.' What follows is a masterclass in paying off slowly-built tension, asSe7en's final scene reveals that the killer was multiple steps ahead all along. To cast the role of a victim who was chained to a bed and starved, producers had only two criteria: the ability to lay . It's a fictional city of constant rain and urban decay that mirrors the general tone of the film. "But it certainly wasn't. It is the most difficult sin to define and credit as sin, since it refers to an assortment of ideas, dating from antiquity and including mental, spiritual, pathological, and physical states. How did John Doe know that Tracy was pregnant? I think I was pretty cool," he says. Strapped to a bed rotting . I dont know. California edged just inches away from the visage, allowing McGinley a close-up view of the victim. And apparently Spacey was pleased with the decision since it meant he didn't have to do any press for the film. I agree, maybe it points to that john doe isnt really some servant of god and on gods mission like he leads you to believe in the cop car ride but rather has his own severe mental problems and really is just forcing stuff, like the sloth, instead of being on some sort of divine mission. How did John Doe select his victims? Se7en is a creative and bold film with an ending so shocking that it still hasn't lost its luster. And David Fincher's legendary serial killer film Se7en is clearly one of those movies. NEXT:Get Out: 10 Hidden Details Everyone Completely Missed, Se7en: 10 Hidden Details You Never Noticed In The Movie, Predator: 10 Hidden Details Everyone Completely Missed, 10 Best Thrillers On Netflix (That Isn't Bird Box), IT: 10 Hidden Details About The Main Characters Completely Missed, 10 Hidden Details Everyone Missed In Cowboy Bebop, The 10 Most Terrifying Monster Movies of the 90s, Ranked, Scary Stories To Tell In The Dark: 10 Hidden Details Everyone Completely Missed, Get Out: 10 Hidden Details Everyone Completely Missed. William Somerset and John Doe are different takes on the Only Sane Man, knowing well how bad the world is, but differ on how they deal with it (which essentially makes Doe Somerset's Evil Counterpart ). I do not think the movie is bad because its as old as my nieces and nephews nor do i think its bad at all. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? There is no definitive answer to that anywhere in the movie. the fat guy died by eating, the whore by sex, the junkie by lying in bed. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). This is further proven by Somerset's decision not to retire, as he's shocked out of his apathy, which is referred to in an earlier scene where he discusses his reasons for retiring with Mills. I think it was the choice itself that marked her sin as pride. Laziness is not considered becoming in many traditional customs. Thrillers are certainly not known as the most highbrow genre of movies, but there have always been a select few flicks that are just so good that they completely transcend the genre's stereotypes. I suppose drug dealing is a lazy way to make money, but child abuse doesnt seem slothful. ("Against Idleness and Mischief" by Isaac Watts). This is, literally, the exact same issue I had with the movie. His sins werent overtly passive (like our modern view of sloth) but they were easy choices to make that avoided the overt difficulty of virtue. Or he could had just made it himself. Following this, Doe moves on to pride, the fifth sin, and his next victim is a model named Rachel Slade. Although Kevin Spacey is obviously the biggest name actor to appear in the film behind Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman, his presence in the film was a total surprise. The murders in the film, as the title implies, all follow a fairly basic theme, with each based around one of the seven deadly sins. Was it long-term planning, or did he choose them "on the spot".
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