It was in one of these Gallic expeditions that the lad Succat, destined under his later name of Patrick to be the greatest and noblest figure Ireland ever knew, was taken in a sweep of captives, carried to Ireland and to Antrim, there to herd the swine of the chieftain, Milcho. Medieval Irish monks supported claims to kingship or property?and gratified the egos?of their noble patrons by plotting their line of descent from Adam and Eve. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. For instance, the chiefs of Clan Donald are now known to belong to a branch of Haplogroup R1a, which split from Niall's hypothetical lineage over 20,000 years ago. However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[6]. Watch a video of a lecture presented at Genetic Genealogy Ireland conference to learn more about research by the O'Neill DNA Group: here. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Niall, the son of Ivocatus Magumedonus ('Eochaidh the Slave-ruler'), came to lead the Connachta in the fifth century AD.[8]. A fourth son by another wife was the warrior, Niall Noigiallach (Niall of the Nine Hostages). Because of that, the identification of M222 with Niall's descendants is "difficult to justify". Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. powerful people who controlled an area loosely centred on present-day Armagh The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestigeuntil they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. McEvoy states: "As in other polygynous societies, the siring of offspring was related to power and prestige." Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. Niall exiles him to Scotland. [4]:81 T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tr Chonaill and Tr Egan, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla. The King,. https://reddit.app.link/S7mCRh4DeR I think you're probably right about the Northern Spain theory. There is nothing weird about someone with 0.00% measurable Irish ethnicity being one of his descendants. Niall belongs to Haplogroup R1b1c7 (M222). [6] Family and descendants, Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. water. Skeletal remains of Viking child found during Dublin excavation, How to find out if you have Irish Viking ancestry, How you can learn Gaelic literature and culture online with a top Irish university, The Irish roots of The Doors Jim Morrison and how they influenced him, On This Day: Singing in the Rain Gene Kelly passed away. [3] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379-405, [4] and the chronology . [8] Death, The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Moore et al. He is said to have three sons by his first wife Brioin, Fiachra and Ailill. [6] Indeed, Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". ), told me that Im a sub-type of a lineage called H6a (specifically H6a1b). When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. 15 ratings6 reviews. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. [7], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. He estimated that two million to three million. 5) [S10138] "High Kings of Ireland e-mail address". By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. For more information, please see our 5 Reply [deleted] 4 yr. ago Oh, got it. Nialls . In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Copyright 2023 Irish Studio LLC All rights reserved. That is to say, after 6-10 generations, you will lose track of entire ancestors and their ethnicity. I'm of Mexican decent with 0% of Irish showing up in my results; how did I get a common ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages? If Patrick was not this person, he would have lived shortly thereafter. geneticists collected a number of samples from men across Ireland. [13], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Niall exiles him to Scotland. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Genographic Project director Spencer Wells then discussed the study's collective results revealing maternal and paternal Geno 2.0 results. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. did not specifically state that Niall was the progenitor of M222, journalists quickly jumped to that conclusion. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. [4] A poem by the 11th century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[4][12] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. became High King. 3 days ago. Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, [14], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. The child was rescued by a great poet of that time, Torna, who reared and educated him. men who can trace their ancestry to Ireland, and especially the north of Ruling from Tara, Niall's modus operandi for gaining dominance was taking Katharine Simms, and Daniel G. Bradley, published in The American Journal of Human Genetics, volume 78, number 2, February 2006 (electronically published December 8, 2005. Fiachrae is granted a minor royal line two of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose dynasty dominated Ireland between the 5th and 10th Centuries, got his name from taking hostages as a strategy against his opponent chieftains. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. The Eochaidh who shot the fatal arrow had been King of Leinster, was banished to Alba by Niall, and accompanied Gabhran, Scots Kings #5, chief of the Dal Riada, when Gabhran took troops to France to support an expedition of Niall. Niall was grandson of Muiredeach Tireach. Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. Patrick escaped from Ireland after six years of slavery, became a bishop, and returned to Ireland to convert its people to Christianity." The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Tom Peete Cross & Clark Harris Slover (eds.). He formed an alliance with the Scots and Picts and sent ships to plunder England, Scotland, Wales, and France. [8], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the High Kingship. The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. 1 Reply Ziff-A-Dee-Dew-Law 4 yr. ago for most of the next six centuries. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. children, from wives or concubines, were acknowledged. A son of Niall, who succeeded his father at Tara circa 427-430, welcomed St. Patrick to his court in 432. M222 signature to the mid-5th century when Niall of the Nine Hostages may Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. certainty, even if its founder is not. The study mentions that just one of the O'Neill dynasty chieftains who died in 1423 had 18 sons with nearly a dozen women and claimed 59 grandsons. The story then becomes confused. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. Reportedly he had fair skin, hair the color of yellow primrose, and deep, blue-gray eyes. If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. They stop to cook a meal but need to find While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and proposed that this could be Niall. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. findings led them to the notion that Niall of the Nine Hostages may be the Big A recent source shows this Angus as the father of Foghan Owen (also named by that source as Eochaid) Whilest many sources sho the decent through Niall "of the 9 Hostages"? Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent's chieftains. He was killed in his sleep while aboard his royal galley. Celtic blood is in Ireland,Uk,France and Spain. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. Niall of the Nine Hostages. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. This group is for anyone. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, has five sons, four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig, and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. [2] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. Editors note: This post has been edited to reflect changes to the 23andMe ancestry product. The less Although these studies are not coordinated with each other and are ongoing, it is already apparent that not all of these lineages are related to each other within Niall's timeframe. It is his (Niall's) family.". [8] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. I wish they'd get rid of that stupid badge. three centuries of Irish emigration to North America. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. He and his descendants continued to dominate much of Ireland The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded and have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne andCoirpre. Legend has it that it was Niall of the Nine Hostages who, on a raid in Wales, captured a young slave and brought him to Ireland. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. haplotype likely originated in the 2nd millennium BC, long before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group even if Niall had been a historical figure. however, steps right up to the mark, agreeing not only to kiss her but also to His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. [5], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[3] and Francis J. Byrne[2]:pp. Granted my great great great great paternal ancestor was unknown, and his son took his mothers name (which is my last name). [26], Perhaps even more problematic is the dearth of M222 lineages in Midlands samples. If instead, I want to see if I have Irish ancestry on my fathers side (even though my father has never claimed to be Irish! [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Such Niall of the Nine Hostages , or Niall Nigiallach, was the youngest son of Eochaidh Mugmedon (King of Connacht). chase overdraft fee policy 24 hours; christingle orange cloves; northeast tennessee regional fire training academy; is srco3 soluble in water; basic science topics for nursery 2; bellflower property management; gifts from the holy land bethlehem; Why not list William the Conqueror or someone else? He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[15] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). And any explanations why it would be present in my ancestry? [7] However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[5] and Francis J. Byrne[4]:pp. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to [9 ], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. In Irish Kings and High Kings (Dublin, 1973), John Francis Byrne prefers a much earlier date for Niall's death and also suggests the Three Collas never existed. 4.00. Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, She will Niall of the Nine Hostages Irish leader Learn about this topic in these articles: association with Conn In Conn Ctchathach to be the ancestor of Niall of the Nine Hostages (reigned 379-405), who founded the U Nill, the greatest dynasty in Irish history. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Sign up to IrishCentral's newsletter to stay up-to-date with everything Irish! I welcome your input, feedback and support: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], English: Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. Husband of Inne ingen Lugaid and Roigneach ingen Meadaib The Royal History of Ireland. And ocean trembled stuck by hostile oars". A subreddit about all things genealogy provided it's not about living people. Autosomal DNA, which is what we use to measure percentages of ethnicity, only has strong relevance for about 6-10 generations back. He earned his name, Niall of the nine hostages, by being able to subdue his enemies by taking members of their family and refusing to give them back until they admitted defeat. My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? He makes war and destroys the poet's stronghold, killing his son Leat[11] (Keating has it that Laidchenn was a druid, and that Eochaid killed his son after he used defamatory language towards him). The sources for the details of Niall's life are genealogies of historical kings, the "Roll of Kings" section of the Lebor Gabla renn, Irish annals such as the Annals of the Four Masters, chronicles such as Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn, and legendary tales like "The Adventure of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon" and "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages". Receive the latest from your DNA community. Many and many a time, in Alba, in Britain, and in Gaul, must Niall have measured his leadership against the best leadership of Rome, and pitted the courage and wild daring of his Scotic hosts against the skill of the Imperial Legions.
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